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    Diablo Ditch the concept of Ancients please

    November 05, 2019

    Diablo Ditch the concept of Ancients please

    Ditch the concept of Ancients please

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 12:53 PM PST

    Never could understand this idea of having multiple tiers of legendary items. All this does is make the base tier legendary items feel bad when they drop.

    The concept of Ancient Legendary items already exists, its as simple as getting the perfect stat roll you want for the build you are creating.....itemization done right is what is needed, not additional item tiers making others redundant.

    That said, Mythic items do have a place given you can only equip one of them at a time.....they service a different purpose.

    submitted by /u/Gibsx
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    Without Attack/Defense, "The Obsidian Heart" Mythic amulet looks like an awesome "GG" Rare Barbarian amulet. I wish Rares were like that.

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 12:15 PM PST

    The Obsidian Heart

    Once I removed the Attack/Defense stats from the amulet & turned the "Mythic" modifiers into White ones for the sake of it, I thought it would make for a seriously cool Rare item.

    It's the definition of a "GG" Barbarian amulet. It is an overload of Barbarian-specific stuff to add as core affixes and probably needs some trimming, but a part of me can't help but wish this were core itemization rather than something you can only find on Legendaries/Mythics. There's a lot of intuitively powerful stuff on there, but it's nothing so complex that new & more casual players can't make sense of it, I think.

    Does anyone think this is too far-fetched an idea for core itemization?

    submitted by /u/ProfessorNox
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    TIL: The entirety of Kurast from D2 Act III is actually one gigantic temple city, it only looked like a jungle because Mephisto's power caused the jungle to grow out of control.

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 02:19 PM PST

    So those bodies of water? Probably just large pools. All those jungly pathways? Just the streets of a city overgrown by trees and grass.

    Lower/Upper Kurast and Travincal are just parts of the city not yet taken over by the jungle. I always thought THAT was the city the NPC's kept speaking of, not realizing that the entire act, including the docks, are part of the city as a whole.

    ...crazy stuff. I read it in the wiki.

    submitted by /u/GreenColoured
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    Dynamic difficulty scaling while you level is an awful idea

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 02:27 PM PST

    Itemization is rightly at the forefront of most people's feedback, however this really jumped out at me from the Q&A thread:

    A: Scaling is important, they want monsters to get tougher as you level but they want players to feel the power of new upgrades. It's tough to balance.

    Scaling can serve SOME purpose in endgame if you chose to go that route (which they have with key dungeons), I guess. However I don't think it belongs anywhere near the leveling experience in an RPG. I've never seen it work out well, and I don't know of anyone who likes it. The most egregious example that comes to mind is Oblivion. Here you had this massively wonderful open world that was completely destroyed by the decision to scale content to your level (or technically if I recall correctly, your skills). Exploration was meaningless because no matter where you went or what you found, the content scaled to you. No excitement, no sense of danger, and no feeling of any meaningful character progression that is core to the RPG experience.

    Another example that comes to mind is Guild Wars 2. Great game, and one that is obviously on the developers radar as they've lifted the stagger mechanic from it almost verbatim. In this game, characters scaled DOWN when they returned to areas below their level to protect the integrity of the zones dynamic events (also now in Diablo 4, in its own dumbed down way). It was done about as well as it could be balance wise. You still destroyed mostly everything in the area, but not so much as to frustrate the lower level players around you (its an MMO). That is until you took part in an event with a ton of players around. Tons of players caused the event difficulty to scale up, so it was entirely possible you could (and quite easily did) die as a max level character in a starting zone because your level was restricted. Again, not very "RPG".

    "It's tough to balance" because, in my opinion, it has no business being in the leveling experience of an RPG. It adds VERY little to the experience and introduces several unsolvable problems. I think it should be scraped, does anybody think otherwise?

    submitted by /u/Celriot1
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    D4 should have an Attribute System that has Attributes which are UNIVERSALLY useful for all classes.

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 10:58 AM PST

    There has been some controversy about D4's new stat system, which many people felt is a dumbed down version of Diablo 3's mainstat system, which itself is a dumbed down version of D2's attribute system.

    D2's attribute system was far away from perfect, since it resulted in 95%+ of all builds to just put enough points into STR and DEX so they could wear the items they wanted, nothing in Energy and then the rest in VIT.

    But what if we could have an attribute system that has attributes which are universally useful to to all classes and attribute requirements would be removed from gear?

    • one attribute that increases the damage for all classes
    • one attribute for defense / reduced damage taken, life, resistances, etc for all classes
    • one attribute that increases the speeds for all classes, like movement speed, attack speed and maybe dodge chance
    • one attribute that improves resource management for all classes (resource cost and cooldown reduction)

    It could look and work somewhat like this:

    https://imgur.com/v2duHG1

    You see, although these attributes are kinda resembling of STR, DEX, VIT and INT, they are different and they are universally useful for all classes. It is basically an updated version of D2's Attribute System.

    Furthermore, since gear would no longer have attribute requirements, it would not lead to a situation like in D2 where you just had to put points into an attribute the wear certain kinds of gear.

    Then the Attribute System would specifically be there to customize your character further:

    • Do you wanna hit harder?
    • Do you wanna be faster?
    • Do you wanna be tougher?
    • Do you wanna have more resource available and use your skills more often?

    For each of these things there is an attribute for that, but you wouldn't need to put x points into an attribute just to wear gear.

    It is just an idea and a concept, but an Attribute System or something similar to it would not be a gatekeeper to what gear you can wear, but rather another layer of customization.

    submitted by /u/clueso87
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    Diablo 4 devs are “very excited about cross-play”[...]" it’s our goal to get to cross-play.”

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 05:16 AM PST

    MrLlamaSc on resource management in ARPGS, referring to cooldowns, stats (STR/DEXT/INT), skillpoints...

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 01:16 PM PST

    Everything We Know about Diablo 4 So Far (Icy Veins)

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 12:01 AM PST

    Non-scaling ‘open world’ is the correct solution

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 07:57 PM PST

    When Blizzard announced Diablo 4 was going to have an open world, I secretly peed a little, YES, I was that excited!

    The reason for that is an open world is the perfect fit for a game like Diablo where the player is forging their own path through the story. In previous games you were led down the garden path and delivered onto Diablo who we proceeded to defeat. We then repeated this process a number of times on different difficulties so we could get to max level. In short, the destination was far more important than the journey.

    With an open world though, you can have monsters, bosses, dungeons, castles and a whole host of areas and activities to explore as side quests along the way. But most importantly, Blizzard can include extremely challenging if not impossible to complete content that you stumble across at early levels. These are the kind of experiences that send shivers down your spine when you stumble off the beaten path and proceed to get one-shot by Witch in her abandoned church, or sucked into a portal and consumed by a foul demon.

    These experiences live with you and as a player you make mental notes of places to revisit once your power level increases or you find a few buddies to come back with. Its these moments that make games great and unfortunately, they don't work very well when the game scales to your level. If you can conquer everything right away the game feels very liner and your incremental power increases feel less significant.

    By not scaling enemies the game creates lifelong memories where players truly feel their power. That Witch that one shot me at level 23, I almost defeated her at level 79, and I finally went back at level 99 to claim her scalp! Or, that portal I was sucked into is actually the entrance to loot cave guarded by a Greater Demon that takes 2-3 players or a well geared solo player to get past.

    Blizzard, do not scale the World with player level. Create a place where you have to tread carefully when venturing away from the main quest line. Setup traps, lure players into content they can't possibly complete early on. Provided you don't restrict the ability to complete the primary storyline, a non-scaling open world will be amazing!

    But, don't abandon scaling content entirely. The ultra-late game will need activities to test the most skilled and geared players to their limits such as endless dungeons, speed runs and uber bosses - but keep that to vanity stuff and bragging rights not what you have to do to get gear (GR 120 versus 123 etc isn't something that is exiting for many players, it's kinda trivial in many ways). This content does not need to be light years apart from the open world provided the balance of itemisation, talents and stat points is carefully considered.

    submitted by /u/Gibsx
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    Why do people think that "Casual" means "Mentally deficient?"

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 02:43 PM PST

    I see people using that term a lot in regard to diablo 3/4, but I don't understand it. To play a game casually, you just don't play as often or as dedicated as someone who isn't a casual player.

    It doesn't mean that casual players are stupid, bad, or unable to think properly. They just don't play as often. Simple as that.

    Why do people think that being "Casual" means "40 iq idiot?" I don't get it.

    submitted by /u/sephrinx
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    Blizzard. If you want to make Diablo 4 scary... Make it hard

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 03:46 PM PST

    The game needs to be challenging from the start. Not just electively difficult or difficult for people playing late game. It needs to be hard because dying and loosing progress is what makes it scary and foreboding, Not only the imagery, themes and atmosphere. It also needs to be difficult because difficulty creates investment and investment = longevity = more profits = more content. Everybody wins.

    It wasn't just the atmosphere and imagery of Diablo 1 that made it scary, it was the fact you were terrified to open the butchers door because you didn't want to die (AND RISK LOOSING PROGRESS!). People can watch a scary movie full of horrific imagery and not be scared, but running from a Tiger and For your life is truly terrifying and exhilarating. It's the…NOT WANTING TO DIE as well as the tigers terrifying countenance that is dreadful. Psychologically that's the purpose of fear, to pump you full of adrenaline so you can escape danger and death. Difficulty also makes getting loot so, so, so much more satisfying, and in a game all about loot this is so important. I also feel like for a game series like Diablo, with the main audience being pretty hardcore gamers, making an experience that is tough will serve the core audience and ultimately the longevity of the game.

    One the things I hated about Diablo 3 was how easy it was the first time through. It totally belittled these huge plot moments and the power of these supposedly world ending demons. Victories didn't mean anything, loot wasn't appreciated, and playing with others wasn't important. I finished Diablo 3 on PS4 on the hardest difficulty offered to a new account in one day. The novelty of destroying everything in one hit grew old pretty quickly and comedified these supposedly terrifying demons. This, for me, belittled the whole experience and left me finished with the game after the first play-though; i was not invested in the game and my character. Difficult experiences create investment; your invested in your character and the story because it has been such a journey, a journey that you can boast about and be proud of, and ultimately this means people will keep playing the game.

    Obviously i don't want the game to be too difficult at the start, and elective difficulty might be fine, I've just been disappointed with the concept it in the past. Here's a good Dunkey video that illustrates some of the pitfalls of elective difficulties... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4_auMe1HsY. Blizzard should take notes from darksouls with regard to the demand for inherently challenging games.

    Thanks for reading.

    ​

    Edit: Spelling, Grammar.

    submitted by /u/bojangles5
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    My one and only criticism about D4 that I sincerely hope Blizzard considers. I am concerned about the oversimplification of stats down to Attack and Defense. I think it detracts from the essence of what makes diabli-style ARPGs so much fun.

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 02:51 PM PST

    Edit: There are a TON of opinion posts out there, while mine is simply one opinion out of many I hope I have provided a well-written and consise argument free of unnecessary complaining or pandering. Thank you for reading.

    Be me. Watch D4 trailer and get hyped. Load up D3 again even though I consider myself completely finished with it. Necromancer just starting Act 2? Perfect. I drop a big 2h axe with similar Int roll to my current dagger, but the "damage" is so much better, 3 green triangles better even. Now my magical primary bone spikes do so much damage! ... wait... because my axe is.... sharper?.. no... bigger? Something doesnt add up.

    Comparing the pros and cons of gear is a hallmark of what makes these games so magical. "Ooh, the DPS is so close, but this would increase my crit chance at the sacrifice of attack speed". Or more importantly, "I'm casting, so the attack power of this big axe shouldn't influence my choice, meaning the little dagger with Int boost will be better for me."

    D3 shot this line down the middle, offering that comparison while still simplying it with arrows. At end game we learn how to ignore the arrows for more appropriate payoff. Let me say that again. The community LEARNED TO IGNORE THE ARROWS. My concern is that Blizzard is doubling down on the arrows, and will end up taking the last bit of soul from gearing as a result.

    Now, I am 1000% excited about the intended focus on skill modification as a primary focus of gearing. PLEASE KEEP THIS FOCUS. It is a golden idea that other games are only scratching the surface of. But... if you truly want to go back to what makes players stay with a game like Diablo, it's the numbers. It's always been the numbers. We want the numbers. We want to debate the payoff between two pieces of gear that green arrows cant tell apart. We want there to be a real difference between a caster's stat stick and a barbarian's axe that aren't superficially imposed by who can equip what.

    Blizzard, if you happen to read this, I am so very hopeful for D4. I cannot wait for runewords and the Barbarian's arsenal system, skill modding, all that. I am going to play this game, but what I want is to not just play the game, but keep coming back, keep digging deeper, keep grinding seasons after I've seen it all and played all the classes. What keeps me coming back is the numbers, please dont forget the numbers.

    Much love and the best of luck with development.

    submitted by /u/bstephe123283
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    Almost everyday people argue what should be carried over from Diablo 2 + 3. Here are some elements I really enjoyed about Diablo 1 that I would love to see in Diablo 4.

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 06:19 AM PST

    It seems Nary a day goes by that there is not a heated argument about whether Diablo 2 or Diablo 3 did better with a certain mechanic, and whether or not it should be brought into Diablo 4. So I'd like to spend a little bit of time talking about things from the original Diablo that I missed in 2 and 3, that would be awesome to see in 4.

    Music. The music in Diablo 1 is hugely compelling, with soulful, haunting classical acoustic guitar tracks that set the mood. Don't get me wrong, the music was good in 2 and 3, but there was a feeling of weariness and the unknown that was very strong in Diablo 1 thanks to its musical style.

    Enemy Behavior differentiation. In Diablo 1, certain enemies were afraid of Fire. If you are casting fire spells and laying down a firewall, they would go out of their way to avoid it because, surprise! They don't want to be burned to death. Other enemies would have behaviors like trying to circle behind you and attack from the Shadows. While there are certain animal behaviors that are interesting in Diablo 2 and 3, the vast majority of enemies simply run at you at full speed regardless of what you are doing or where you are.

    Unknown consequences. I think we can all agree that the shrines in Diablo one that would curse you permanently and irrevocably were bad. But the idea of activating something and not knowing ahead of time exactly what kind of benefit or detriment it would bring added a layer of Mystery and foreboding to exploration. It would be cool to see more things like cursed chests, something with a large reward but an unknown and terrible challenge associated with it.

    Lack of trust. In Diablo 1, there was full Friendly Fire, and PVP could be turned on at any time. In Diablo 1 and 2, people could steal loot from you or trap you with portals to certain death. I don't think these are specifically great mechanics, but the idea that you could only trust other adventurers a certain amount added tension to the game play.

    Restricted movement. Again, I know it was not fun to plod everywhere at a slow pace. But by comparison, you are basically an Unstoppable acrobat in Diablo 2 and 3. In Diablo 1 you had to very carefully decide how much aggro you were going to pull, and what your Escape Route was going to be, because you didn't have an easy way to escape from many situations. You had to use things like the terrain, or the monsters' fear of Fire in order to safeguard yourself. I have always enjoyed the movement abilities in Diablo 2 and 3, but I think they need some kind of restriction so you don't feel like you have a get-out-of-jail-free card at any time.

    Less talking. There's not a lot of dialogue in Diablo 1, which really made you perk up and pay attention whenever something was said. It also felt like the world was cold and dead, working against you buy shrouding events in silence. Diablo 2 added to this a little bit, but it went off the rails in Diablo 3. As most people agree, the villain speeches were particularly bad.

    Unique items with powerful bonuses and drawbacks. I think this has been talked a lot about here, but items with drawbacks really increase the choices you can make as a player, enabling interesting builds while also punishing you harshly for mistakes. Equally important, it adds to the feeling of a cursed world where people are getting by with whatever they have.

    Item duplication. Just kidding, wanted to see if you were still paying attention.

    submitted by /u/wingspantt
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    Runewords need to be more complex than only two word combinations

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 01:22 PM PST

    https://sites.google.com/site/lataussivu/_/rsrc/1500908743533/runes/FINAL.png

    Not saying that the (D3) suggestion stated in the picture is the way to go but two word combinations, while giving a certain flexibility to player, feels a quite underwhelming.

    However, great to see runewords back! I hope these will be a meaningful aspect in the game.

    submitted by /u/ToBeRuined
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    Why has the subreddit banner not been changed to Diablo 4 artwork yet?

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 06:32 PM PST

    I think this new stuff is more important than rise of the necromancer.

    submitted by /u/Doriando707
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    As someone who loved Diablo 2 and 3, here's my take on the conflict fans are having over itemization

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 10:26 AM PST

    First off, I've been seeing a lot of people saying that Diablo 2 fans just want a Diablo 2 remake. This is very true, but that would be D2 Remastered :D. What D2 fans want out of D4 is a little more intricate than that.

    Anyways, I've seen a lot of comments throwing around things like "If you want D2 itemization, go play D2" or "I don't want D2, I want D4" This isn't exactly what the point of the itemization criticism is. Diablo 2 fans don't want the itemization to be exactly the same as D2. They want it to be more in line with D2 than it was D3.

    As a sequel in the Diablo series, Diablo 4 should be drawing from things that were good in D1, D2, and D3, and avoiding the things that were bad about those games as well... or improving those things. Now it does seem that most people who played both D2 and D3 extensively agree that D2LoD had a more intriguing loot system. In a game about looting items, this is very important. There's one sentence from the panels that seems to be bothering those of us who played D2 a lot. That sentence is "D4 itemization refines the D3 itemization system"

    Let's take a quick step back and look at some things D3 did well. Quality of life improvements like auto gold pick-up. shared stash space, and a very smooth gameplay combat system comes to mind. Let's say the D4 developers say "We're going back to Diablo 2 Quality of Life and refining it. We'll go back to picking up gold by clicking, and you will not have shared stash. You can make mules to transfer items between characters. We will also shrink the stash space to D2 size. We are still working on this so we are open to suggestions". I think universally, everyone would say "WTF?" Even if they're willing to change/fix this and take suggestions, why would they start with that as their base, instead of the greatly superior D3 system of walking over gold/shared stash? We would all clearly want D4 to adapt D3's quality of life and improve on it. D3's QOL should be the base point for D4, and should even improve on it.

    Now tying this back in, this is exactly how D2 fans feel about what we've seen about D4's itemization. They see D2 as having the best item system in the series, so why not start with those fundamentals of D2's itemization and build off that? It would be a much different story if they said "We are refining D2's itemization for D4". In fact, that would probably be a universally revered statement. And as someone who prefered D2's itemization, I don't want the exact same system. I want to look at two items as I'm leveling and think "Hmm... 10% faster hit recovery. Will that help me survive more than the 20% Fire/Cold resist on this armor? Am I dying more due to elemental damage, or because I'm slower to recover from enemy attacks?" Instead, we see a green arrow saying "This item has more defense". Now combine that with the fact that Whites, Blues, Yellows, Uniques, and Sets can all be viable items opposed to D3 having just Legs and Sets being viable. This is where D2 fans are worried.

    submitted by /u/OnSugarHill
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    Loot Goblin Teaser From the Artists at Work D4 Panel

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 03:50 AM PST

    https://prnt.sc/pspu58

    Just wow. I love the sinister look!

    Edit: replaced with a higher res version

    submitted by /u/mgtube
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    In D4, please make the combat SLOW and VARIED

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 04:45 PM PST

    In D2, before becoming really powerful:

    - When I enter a room and see a bunch of kids running to me, I used to instantly leave and tried to pull them one by one- When fighting with a group, I tried to kill their Shaman first because if I kill one of the others, the Shaman could resurrect them- With Amazon, against zombies, I would fire an arrow, take a few steps back, and repeat.

    In D3, there is some element of this with "mortar" rares, or with unique boss mechanics.

    In D4, I would like to see a lot more of these. It becomes really fun when every monster has a different kind of strength and weakness, thus, it requires a different approach to deal with.

    The progress becomes rudimentary when killing any type of monster is just engaging them in the same way, repeating the same exact clicks and run until the next group.

    Please make the combat slow and make us get to know each monster better. Let us develop muscle memory for how to fight each monster kind. Make them behave very differently from each other and let us take our time fighting them, being creative in figuring out the unique way to tackle each and every one of them.

    submitted by /u/buyutec
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    Dungeon keys should be tradeable and rerollable similar to maps in PoE!

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 08:39 PM PST

    For instance, it would be really cool to have toe ability to reroll keys in order to target specific affixes depending on what you are looking for. Hopefully there are a lot of affixes that really change up the gameplay and how you approach each dungeon. Variety is good!

    Making them tradable would add some depth and spice to trading--imagine a legendary key with rare affixes that would go for the price of a rare item.

    submitted by /u/HilltopHood
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    Wallpaper: Diablo IV: Lilith #2 (This ones been requested)

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 06:40 PM PST

    Diablo IV: Lilith #2

    deviantART: https://www.deviantart.com/holyknight3000/art/Diablo-IV-Lilith-II-819334814
    twitter: https://twitter.com/Holyknight3000/status/1191874044749987840

      

    I know I've had many requests for this. So ill do this version! Ill have more from the cinematic later on in the next few months. Sorry I have to build up the catalog!

      

    ENjoy everyone!

      

    HK

      

    Diablo 4 & Lilith (C) Blizzard
    Wallpaper arranged by me.

      

    PS: Need diff resolutions let me know. I can make the 3440x1440 again if wanted.

      

    Also sorry, I will have many wallpapers over the coming days. Cinematic reveal walls soon enough. I also have the Uni-Calendar ready for November I'll post that soon.

    submitted by /u/Holyknight3000
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    Diablo 4 Screenshots (Mike Marra Artstation)

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 07:47 PM PST

    Diablo 4 Details & Review

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 05:56 PM PST

    A breakdown: Legendary Itemization as the D4 Devs currently envision it fundamentally threatens the possibility of the D1&D2 atmosphere and gameworld they're trying to return to. It quickly slides into being Epic like D3

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 07:58 PM PST

    I know that the D4 Devs have promised us a dark, gritty experience without high fantasy, Epic flashy moments. But saying they're going to do it and actually doing it aren't the same thing. Nor is it any gaurantee they'll achieve it - after all the D3 Devs promised things that resembled D1/D2 which did not translate into things actually in the game. Check out the cut-scene kills and rune system they abandoned for starters. The D1/D2 atmosphere is more than just a dark colour pallete and dead bodies.To get towards D1/D2's gameworld and atmosphere they need to go back to the formula of 'skilled mortal heroes against the Lords of Hell' and that necessary power-imbalance. They know this. Gameplay that's the equivalent of billions of damage, Michael Bay Explosions, and Nachos breaks the rules of D1/D2-like world which takes itself seriously and is more subdued. Epic implies something grand, awesome, or super powerful. Being "Epic" clashes hard with the atmosphere they're trying to create since it upsets this balance and the suspension of belief "skilled mortals vs Lords of Hell" we've already bought into from D1/D2. D3's Nephalem breaks from that formula and its part of why that game was more 'epic' and out of touch with D1/2. They know this. The power-imbalance must reflect something closer to a struggle against the forces of evil with uncertainty as to your success and poor odds that you do. I think the current direction of the D4 Devs, an itemization formula with an over-emphasis on legendaries, will naturally, predictably, and inevitably, slide into the game that is more 'Epic' like D3. Their focus on this formula makes a meaningful return to the atmosphere and gameworld of D1/D2 either incredibly short-lived or ultimately impossible whereas D1/D2 facilitated or enhanced it

    Epic and Legendary are used interchangably: when used to describe items both we and the Devs expect they'll be very powerful.

    The words Epic and Legendary can and are often used interchangably. Words have power and can shape how we think about things. The word legendary brings with it built in expectations both we and the Devs have of items that would have that label. The Word 'legendary' imports the idea that whatever this item is it better be incredible - they can't be garbage, otherwise why is there a legend about them? We might assume it probably is obscenely overpowered in gross disproportion to other items available and the enemies you face. They likely are a game-changer in the battle against evil and those probably aren't laying about just anywhere - nor are they plentiful. We expect that this type of power needs some justification in light of the formula on which D1/D2 - Skilled mortals against the overwhelming power of Evil - lest it upset that balance which is integral to maintaining this atmosphere. You probably wouldn't expect to find many of them and even less so expect to have them as the staple of your gear. Additionally, we would expect that it has some kind of past you probably have at least heard of. There is a story behind it. It is Epic.

    I think D4 Dev's over-focus on legendaries without the natural constraints we associate with that word will devolve into 'Epicness' quickly

    To get towards D1/D2's gameworld and atmosphere, first note that the game never framed its items like this. In the first two diablo titles there's only three off the top of my head that have this 'legendary' quality in that they're otherwordly and storied items: Arkaine's Valor in Diablo 1 – 'Valor awaits for the Hero of Light to Awaken' – Diablo 1's Veil of Steel, and the angelic runeblade Azurewrath in D2. If legendaries are to be in the game, they should be incredibly rare and not the staple of gear. This leaves space for other types of gear to be relevant, good, and something that is consistent with the D1/D2 atmosphere. This will curb the tendancy and the desire to make legendaries grossly overpowered and contain the powercreep which they'll likely produce. They should be a rare quest based item or something. That way there is a legend about them that we can have some sort of experience with which might justify their overpowered nature in light of the premise we accept when we have a d1/d2 atmosphere. This again is 'Skilled mortals against the Lords of Hell' and the power-imbalance that it is in evils favour.

    Not just a 'Nephalem' problem: D3 Itemization results in 'Epicness' and Precludes D1/D2 Atmosphere

    Again, in comparison, D3 doesn't even have something like this as a limitation on the legendary item class. Its just a bunch of meaningless flavour text you don't even remember and nothing to do with the character experience of that legend. There aren't any natural constraints on the legendariness in terms of their power of these items or rarity in terms of quantities that justifies them in light of the game world and atmosphere. They end up the end-all be-all of gameplay with sets, and it just quickly devolves into becoming "EPIC." How does it get here? Again, they crowd out and preclude the relevance or need of any item type outside of sets when done like this - they funnel us into the conclusion of simply not seeing these items as needing to be relevant and why would they - when you can have a LEGENDARY and both the player and the devs agree and expect that they'll be the best items. They also have to be interesting and what you'll be building around because the other types of gear besides sets are irrelevant - and these builds have to be interesting both for it to be legendary and keep your interest. As a result, in d3 all of the game design happens around legendaries and sets, so the other item classes which might have less flash and be more reserved in their benefits have less and less relevance as they attempt to create more legendaries. This process is self-reinforcing and ends up with a gameplay that is fundamentally revolves around and predicated upon you having these items and only these types of items to be able to do anything. They'll always be extraordinarly powerful and continuously so because they're inextricably linked with delivering any meaningful gameplay, and so you end up with the Devs engaged in a legendary arms race which devolves into billions of damage and EPIC*.* It results in a very dev-decides-how-you-can-build game. This limited gear treadmill again prevents the possibility of a dark atmopshere even without the Nephalem label. It shifts the power balance we signed up for in D1-D2 into significantly in favour of the 'mere mortal's' as opposed to the Lord's of Hell. It does so quickly and immediately because the Devs designed it that way because legendary's are fundamental to both gameplay and the only meaningful way to achieve it. As i've argued before, I think we get the word legendary in D3 because of the total change in itemization from D2 and abandoning unique items due to player pressure more than anything. There isn't really any reason to retain it as its used here other than to 'Epicify' itemization and with it gameplay.

    The D4's Dev's tenative itemization approach: The same approach just slightly juggled around?

    The D4 Devs are supposedly going to focus on Legendaries to a greater extent and it has been suggested they'll be core to gameplay which will mean they're going to likely be plentiful to enable that only means of gameplay. I think this is a trap which just leads to the same place as D3. Again, the Devs want you to be able to obtain that gameplay, since they're not going to be putting alot of effort into other item types as why bother when compared to 'legendary'- so its going to be relatively easy to obtain. We can assume they'll have an outsized role, eclipsing and making other gear obsolete, and shift that balance heavily against the forces of hell which negates the atmosphere. . Again, the over-design and over-focus of this one item group as a means of gameplay almost certainly will see the replication of D3's gearing progression and resulting EPICNESS. The only real difference between the two is that I think this just collapses this problem into one item type rather than two. It might be more interesting in terms of not being chained into a set which obligates you to assign a number of gear slots to obtain its bonuses, but it fundamentally will devolve into the EPICNESS that we see in D3. Since legendaries are the focus, there's always the potential for them to be buffed/nerfed/altered but its always part of the upward gearing trajectory which sort of leads to a 'legendaries' arms race. Again, when legendaries become easy to find and tied to the core of entertaining gameplay - we won't be able to differentiate from the results in D3. Its the same thing - they're the only means and end-all and be-all of gameplay. You can't really have a D1/D2 dark atmosphere/gameworld where the sole category of relevant itemization is the only one which impacts gameplay because its just going to leave nd will inevitably lead to billions of damage because the Devs only reference to what meaningfully relevant gear is other legendaries -its just antithetical to it. That atmosphere is reinforced generally by only modest increases of power - which is facilitated by an itemization system in which a variety of gear types can be relevant which both the player and dev have less expectations of. Players decide what those items are for themselves and which will define their gameplay. This skews away from 'Epicness.'

    Possible Solutions to maintain a dark atmosphere as long as possible: Curb Legendarys and the powercreep they promise, bring back Uniques, and ideally other item types

    Even if the D4 Devs don't want to embrace fully a system like Diablo 2's itemization which permits the atmosphere they seek to create, they might be able to still delay this over-legendarification of the game. One way to try and delay the near-immediate dissipation of the atmosphere is to revive and focus on the 'unique' category of items. This creates the possibility of a decent item spread as it relates to power-creep/potential ceiling.They don't come with the expectation that they're necessarily overpowered but can allow for and facilitate interesting gameplay. In the earlier titles Some uniques were amazing, and some were not. This was okay – it helped create some sense of progression as well as a more varied item hunt. A player calling anything legendary or 'epic' in D1 and D2 then would have just been a personal reference in relation to how difficult to find they were and how good they were such as Tyrael's Might, Grandfather, or Windforce, or some other unique which had an incredibly low drop rate. **It would be the player giving the item that privilege and not any game developer.**These items weren't really the sole source of power in relation to Diablo or Baal and they weren't expected to be in part because in Diablo 2 your skills empowered your character independently of your gear. This is in contrast with Diablo 3 where it was your gear/paragon points to a lesser extent which were the sources of power for your character. Diablo 2 Uniques or runewords didn't have to be 'epic' in terms of what they did to be good. They didn't have to have an awesome/Wow/Amazing' factor either to be valuable. The label doesn't cause us to expect something that might be grossly overpowered that may change the premise of the games we accepted earlier -mere mortals, wielding magic or might vs the overwhelming forces of Hell – instead it really is just a descriptor that says nothing about their quality. Its completely up to the player and the economy how good and valuable something really has. They don't smuggle in the idea that the item has to be amazing based on how we might understand the word. It gives the chance of the atmosphere will last longer by making it so items which increase 'gameplay' don't have to be incredibly powerful and that power can be dispersed over more items.

    I'm not convinced the legendary itemization they've proposed can as it is not just result in game coming across as Epic which comes at a cost of D1/d2's dark horror inspired fantasy. Even if they made quests that have that 'unfortunate' ending that seems unpreventable, they'll look rather unbelievable to you as the player as you sit there watching people die besides being able to absurd damage in your full-legendary set. The 'Epicness' spotlight on legendaries pierces through the dark atmosphere that would otherwise exist with someone's gear being more grounded within the world. When everyone is able to quickly and easily become an epic-hero with 'legendary' gear – sanctuary's best of the best - far more powerful than your average weaponry, we might wonder why the Prime Evils keep attempting to push into the mortal realm when its patently clear that in no time they'll be in for a real beating – something only a cartoonish villain is going to walk right into.

    Super TLDR - D4Devs want to return to D1-D2 atmosphere which is premised on 'mere mortals vs powers of hell' power imbalance yet this game includes legendary items. D1/D2's itemization faciliated or enhanced its own atmosphere but had no Legendaries. "Legendaries" imply that they're the best items over any other gear both for players and devs. Normally we'd expect it to be really powerful but restricted and where allowed, justified, because it disturbs the balance of power that makes D1-D2 atmosphere possible and meaningful. D4 Devs also want itemization to focus on legendaries as core vehicles of gameplay, implying no restrictions, and will come with the same problems as D3 just without 'Nephalem'. Because they're the best items you'll look to use them and not other things - they have no real value in terms of gameplay - Devs not going to focus on them and why should you. Legendaries will be easily obtainable because Devs want you to have opportunities to modify gameplay because this is fun and they have given you no other means to do it(besides sets, which they're de-emphasizing). This leads to you just gearing up quickly with legendary items, which threatens the power imbalance upon which D1-D2 is premised and makes it irrelevant - atmosphere of horror/difficult and uncertain struggle against evil quickly evaporates because how fast you're likely to become EPIC - Dev's focus on Legendaries traps themselves into legendary arms race to make more items related to gameplay --> only difference is D4 Devs now want you juggling legendaries not legendary sets--> probably billions of damage again. Epic. Also Oddly similar to WoW in terms of raiding progression.

    Consider Uniques to as an alternative at least because they at least don't come with the expectation they're the best - can be bad, mediocre, good, and special stats that alter gameplay. Less threatening to premise of atmosphere in D1/D2. Better power distribution over time relative to PVE and attach 'Legendary'/ 'Mythic' to special quests. Also means more gear can be relevant for longer. Less of a rush to the End-Game. Also Lvl 40 seems low - but doesn't necessarily threaten atmosphere.

    Other Posts

    If you want to see why D2's itemization is really good and why the D4 Devs should look at it see my post here. D2's itemization is varied and fun. The itemization itself constrains power creep and better maintains the atmosphere that is discussed in this post. Part of this was the much slower pace of getting anything worth anything relative to the power ceiling and even less likely to find something really good. You could mitigate this in part by having the full array of the types of items at your disposal.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/dqqzmx/a_question_diablo_4_devs_should_be_asking/

    If you would like an over-explain on dangers of casting Diablo as "Epic" game in any capacity or think the D4 Devs need such a thing so they're ensured to a real chance to get the atmosphere right - its right here and well written https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/ds6h4u/a_question_diablo_4_devs_should_be_asking

    submitted by /u/ThrowAwayLurker444
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    Can Diablo IV leveling be meaningful please?

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 02:19 AM PST

    While I really like the look and feel of the game I am worried that the game is going to have the same problem as Diablo 3, that problem being meaningless leveling and "infinite replayability" leading to infinite powerscaling.

    LEVELING

    I think that items you find while leveling should not be automatically outclassed by max level trash items. It makes your journey to te cap feel meaningless and just something you have to do before getting to the "real game". I think that while levelling you should feel like you are progressing, collecting actually viable crafting mats, runes, gems and even items if you roll lucky.

    INFINITE PROGRESSION

    Now this one is not confirmed yet but the talk about replacing paragon levels with something similar scares me. This is what lead to the infinite powercreep in D3 (at least partially). I think ieally they should make the level cap higher something along the lines of 99-100 like D2 and very time consuming to reach but they should not gate important systems behind this level. Let people play key dungeons and whatever other endgame from level 40 or so. I also feel like the power discrepancy between a level 40 and 99 based purely on level should be relatively small (at least compared to D3). I think the game should not follow the MMO model which invalidates your progress when the expansion comes. I would hate it if when they release the expansion they just raised the cap by 10 levels and invalidated the two or so years of progress that people have made.

    INFINITE STAT SCALING

    This problem is tied to the previous two. In my opinion stats like attack/defense or the D3 version of int/dex/str/vit are pretty meaningless and only lend themselves to powercreep. How can you make leveling feel rewarding when anything you find is automatically crap because the attack/defense stat is low? As we have seen there are already items with like 8000 att/def and the items you get around level 20 have around 200, which makes it impossible for you to find anything good while leveling even if you roll perfect secondary stats.

    I know there is plenty of time left in the development cycle and I have faith in the devs to do better than D3 so I hope they do not fall in this "infinite bullshit" trap.

    submitted by /u/spe1l
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    Why Items in Diablo 2 were awesome while Items in Diablo 3 are lame

    Posted: 05 Nov 2019 11:17 AM PST

    Awesome Diablo Runeword here

    I'm a Mac/iOS developer but am moving into video game design/development and this screenshot couldn't be more crystal clear. In Diablo 3 Items are always +600 Strength +600 Vitality + Area Damage + 1 Legendary Power etc. I was looking over the Diablo 2 Runewords and most don't even have +Strength/+Intelligence/+Dexterity/+Vitality etc. It's just a pointless mechanic that is purely based on damage/defense and provides no customizability. And Please give me an Ice Paladin Blizzard, and bring back the Zeal Skill and Auras! There was nothing more fun for me than making a Zeal Holy Freeze Paladin, Zeal Holy Fire Paladin, Zeal Holy Shock Paladin, etc. Please go over Diablo 2 Items Blizzard!

    submitted by /u/machsoftwaredesign
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